I always try to make it clear in my car identification efforts that I am not infallible or unstumpable. I don’t really consider myself an expert, as I know countless people in the old car world — AACA judges and professional restorers — who easily put me to shame. My main goal is to have fun and spin a few yarns about readers’ old family photos, while giving the mystery car my best shot. That’s why I get a bit annoyed when anyone tries to treat DCIDS as the Let’s Stump Dave Contest.
I'm already a subscriber, but I found this clear picture after some of the earlier suggestions and it seems to be a 1916 Mormon '34 with some wooden wheels (Checks all the other boxes): https://www.flickr.com/photos/davydutchy/5560422405
I think you are very, very close here, and I am almost ready to accept it as a Marmon Model 34 or 41 touring. The main issue is that pre-1916 Marmons had the 10/12 wood spokes, but hood louvers; circa 1916-19 they had no hood louvers but seems like all ran 5-lug wire wheels fore and aft. Trick is to find a Marmon touring with the 10/12 wheels and no hood louvers.
If the manufacturer made models with both wire and wood wheels, is it just a center mount hub to attach to the axle? Maybe they preferred the wood wheels and swapped them for the wire?
I think you are very, very close here, and I am almost ready to accept it as a Marmon Model 34 or 41 touring. The main issue is that pre-1916 Marmons had the 10/12 wood spokes, but hood louvers; circa 1916-19 they had no hood louvers but seems like all ran 5-lug wire wheels fore and aft. Trick is to find a Marmon touring with the 10/12 wheels and no hood louvers.
It resembles the 1917 Hal Touring, even has the divider between front and back pretty much the same the wood spoke wheels with the same count front to back.
Not identical, but lots of similarities. Upholstery is nearly identical, with the curved piece at the back door. Front springs are the same, headlight placement is the same. Wheels are the same except for bolts and no cap. Front fenders are the same, even with the second cutout. Roof looks the same. Not saying it's the same car, but it looks like it was built in the same plant. https://libwww.freelibrary.org/digital/item/53983
i want it to be a Hudson. I can find 12/10 spoke. shaved handles. Round Cowl, curved windshield. very similar fenders. Just not one with it all put together like that picture
I think you are very, very close here, and I am almost ready to accept it as a Marmon Model 34 or 41 touring. The main issue is that pre-1916 Marmons had the 10/12 wood spokes, but hood louvers; circa 1916-19 they had no hood louvers but seems like all ran 5-lug wire wheels fore and aft. Trick is to find a Marmon touring with the 10/12 wheels and no hood louvers.
I don't really care about the prize. Would rather support Dave with $$. I just enjoy this whole thing. So some guesses
I believe it's European from the post war (WW1) hey day of high end European passenger cars 1919 to 1930's. Isotta Fraschini, Hispano Suiza, or even a Lorraine. None I know of match all the features though. For instance while Hispano Suiza would have had that front and rear fender right, I don't believe they ever made a dual cowl cabrio and the grill is all wrong.
I'm already a subscriber, but I found this clear picture after some of the earlier suggestions and it seems to be a 1916 Mormon '34 with some wooden wheels (Checks all the other boxes): https://www.flickr.com/photos/davydutchy/5560422405
My first instinct (because of the hood and radiator) was that it's a Marmon. And, as Jeffrey and maybe one or two others have already surmised, it does indeed appear to be a ca. 1916 Marmon Model 34. Can't find any pics of one with wooden wheels, but here's a pic of its near twin: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RPPC-Real-Photo-Man-in-Fancy-Antique-Car-1916-Marmon-Model-34-touring-/303252424459?_ul=IN
I also get a marmon 34. 1916-1018
I think you are very, very close here, and I am almost ready to accept it as a Marmon Model 34 or 41 touring. The main issue is that pre-1916 Marmons had the 10/12 wood spokes, but hood louvers; circa 1916-19 they had no hood louvers but seems like all ran 5-lug wire wheels fore and aft. Trick is to find a Marmon touring with the 10/12 wheels and no hood louvers.
If the manufacturer made models with both wire and wood wheels, is it just a center mount hub to attach to the axle? Maybe they preferred the wood wheels and swapped them for the wire?
Marmon Model 34? Except grill might be off. Springs and wheels look right.
I think you are very, very close here, and I am almost ready to accept it as a Marmon Model 34 or 41 touring. The main issue is that pre-1916 Marmons had the 10/12 wood spokes, but hood louvers; circa 1916-19 they had no hood louvers but seems like all ran 5-lug wire wheels fore and aft. Trick is to find a Marmon touring with the 10/12 wheels and no hood louvers.
This is why I love Dave's Car ID Service. It's teaching me to notice stuff that I've never noticed in the past (ie: 10/12 wheels).
Thank you for the challenge! After a very stressful day, a glass of bourbon and some searching vintage car images allowed my mind to decompress.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RPPC-Real-Photo-Man-in-Fancy-Antique-Car-1916-Marmon-Model-34-touring-/303252424459?_ul=IN
It resembles the 1917 Hal Touring, even has the divider between front and back pretty much the same the wood spoke wheels with the same count front to back.
Not identical, but lots of similarities. Upholstery is nearly identical, with the curved piece at the back door. Front springs are the same, headlight placement is the same. Wheels are the same except for bolts and no cap. Front fenders are the same, even with the second cutout. Roof looks the same. Not saying it's the same car, but it looks like it was built in the same plant. https://libwww.freelibrary.org/digital/item/53983
Wrong windshield, running board, radiator shell.
i want it to be a Hudson. I can find 12/10 spoke. shaved handles. Round Cowl, curved windshield. very similar fenders. Just not one with it all put together like that picture
certainly the front bumper attachment point is common on Hudsons
1916-1923 Marmon? Teens have wire spoke wheels but several similarities, 20's have wood spoke wheels, but none of them fill all of the criteria.
I think you are very, very close here, and I am almost ready to accept it as a Marmon Model 34 or 41 touring. The main issue is that pre-1916 Marmons had the 10/12 wood spokes, but hood louvers; circa 1916-19 they had no hood louvers but seems like all ran 5-lug wire wheels fore and aft. Trick is to find a Marmon touring with the 10/12 wheels and no hood louvers.
Apparently following instructions isn’t my forte, but to repeat what I shared on Twitter: I still think you should consider the 1919 Pan Model A. Check this example: https://www.flickr.com/photos/greggjerdingen/28993910443/in/photostream
No rear cowl, and front wheels are 12 spoke / 6 bolt hub rather than the 10/10 in pictured car. Not a simple swap. I gotta rule it out sadly.
also, Pan has exterior hinges on rear door.
Beautiful car. Can’t wait for the mystery to be solved.
Cons:
Marmon 34 all had wire wheels until 1924, way too late.
There was a model 32 that ended in 1913, way too early
The OP has chrome trim afront the cowl, as no model 34
ever did, at least until the much later 34C.
Model 34s all had the break in the fender carefully aligned
with the break between valence and body, front and rear,
which the OP does not.
There was a Model 41 that is all wrong, at least through 1915.
Pros:
All the Marmon open model 34s had that rear cowl treatment,
including the Cloverleaf step-through 3/4 seat roadster.
The 1924 model 34C with wood spoke and the 1915 model 41
both have that goofy 3-bolt rear hub cap which I swear has a
large 'S' on it in the OP.
Best I've got is a very early parts-bin model 34 Marmon 5 seat tourer.
1910 Luverne Montana Special
RLGjust now
I don't really care about the prize. Would rather support Dave with $$. I just enjoy this whole thing. So some guesses
I believe it's European from the post war (WW1) hey day of high end European passenger cars 1919 to 1930's. Isotta Fraschini, Hispano Suiza, or even a Lorraine. None I know of match all the features though. For instance while Hispano Suiza would have had that front and rear fender right, I don't believe they ever made a dual cowl cabrio and the grill is all wrong.
Anyway, good luck to all.
It is a 1916 Marmon 34 with 1916 Marmon Model 41 Club Sportster Wheels.
The 41 wheels have 8 rim nuts to the OP's 6, front and rear.
Also different hub cap on the front. They were threaded on,
so not awfully interchangeable.
We could also say the OP wheels were from a '24 model 34C,
just as likely.
https://themarmonclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/1916marmonmodel41clubroadsterwarrenbethwitherell-768x562.jpg